Accessing nested report's data

Okay I have a nested report, not a composite so GetChild is of no use, and I'd like to get to the data in the nested report. This kind of thing works very well:

For ll_loop = 1 to dw_1.RowCount()

     la_any = dw_1.Object.d_nested[ll_loop].object.data

     For ll_loop2 = 1 to UpperBound(la_any)

          ll_ref = dw_validation.Object.dw_property[ll_loop].object.ref[ll_loop2]

     Next

Next

The problem is when dw_1.Object.d_nested[ll_loop].object.data has no rows, a System Error occurs. I can't think of a way to check if there are any rows in advance. Long searches of the internet have turned up the following:

If long(dw_1.Object.d_nested[ll_loop].object.DataWindow.FirstRowOnPage) > 0

     This always returns 0 for me and I know I have data in my first few nested reports

IsNull(dw_1.Object.d_nested[ll_loop])

     This is never TRUE

IsValid(dw_1.Object.d_nested[ll_loop])

     This is never FALSE

Anyone have any other ideas this is driving me crazy, it looks like it should be so simple!!!!

Thank you for any help.